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§ 15 Life and death of method No. 13. (winding generator)


Ghost freebies roams the Internet! Method No. 13, also known as "Winding Generator", "Reactive Power Generator (?!)", "Electroheating", and the like. A distinctive feature of this method of stopping (winding) electric meters is that it does not require changes in the wiring, grounding and in general interference with the existing power supply scheme. An emphasis is always placed on what acts on electronic meters. Usually this scheme is called - "Method No. __. Electronic." More legendary and discussed in the network of the method of winding counters is even difficult to come up with. It's like communism - it seems to be just a little bit and here it is happiness. The detailed information (circuit and firmware of the microcontroller) costs $ 11 (although some unconscious individuals sell it for $ 2), although I found it on the network for free. However, you should not run for your electronic and cash money and grab for a soldering iron.

Scheme, theory and embodiment.

Let's get acquainted with the contents of the sent description, the text of the original description is italicized, I will mark out my comments in bold.

Theory and principle of circuit operation: In the first quarter of the network voltage period, the energy is consumed from the network, that is, the capacitor C1 is charged, but it is charged via transistor switches A and D which are controlled by high-frequency pulses, that is, the energy for charging is consumed by high frequency pulses. It is known that counters, incl. electronic, tk. they contain an inductive current sensor with a magnetic conductor having limited conductivity in frequency (here about the electronic ones I will disagree - a low resistance resistor can be used as a shunt for current measurement, in which limited frequency conductivity can not be in principle.But a coil, but with a very small inductive resistance, so that the error it introduces is very small.
For a more complete explanation, I will quote excerpts from the standard factory instruction for the electronic meter:
" Analog signals taken from a precision current transformer, in the core of which there is no iron , and a resistive voltage divider are fed to the inputs of the microcontroller. The microcontroller converts analog signals to digital ones, multiplies them and calculates the average power P (t) every second. The energy consumption is determined by integrating P (t). "
Single - phase active energy counters GEM

For an electronic counter, the magnetic field produced by the current coil is completely unimportant. There is rather not limited frequency conductivity, but the sampling frequency of the electronic counter. That is, if the electronic meter measures the current at a frequency of 100 times per second, and if the load is consumed at a frequency of 200 times per second, theoretically every second impulse will be unaccounted for and the energy will be accounted for only half. And now again look at the factory instruction:

2. Technical characteristics of the electronic counter GEM .

Accuracy class 1.0 or 2.0 (GOST 30207)
Rated voltage, Uh 100V; 120V; 127B; 220V; 230V
Rated (maximum) current Iн 10 (60) A - cl. 1.0; 10 (100) A - cl. 2.0
Rated frequency 50 Hz or 60 Hz
Sensitivity 0.004In
Operating temperature range -20 ° C to +55 ° C
Power consumed by the voltage circuit <0.75W; <1VA
Power consumed by the current circuit <0.05 VA
Counter constant 4000 or 2000 imp / kWh
Max. number of tariff zones 1 or 2

the sampling frequency of the counter (clock frequency) at a frequency of 60 Hz should be at least 120 Hz (this is one of the higher-mathematics theories, as I do not remember, but I know for sure that to reproduce the analog signal accurately the sampling frequency should be double), but most likely it is even higher and the load should be consumed at a frequency of 240 Hz, and it must be synchronized with the internal frequency of the counter, which is not practicable in practice.) , and induction, because contain, in addition to the magnetic, also the mechanical part of the measuring system, they have a very large negative error when the current flows. (here, to some extent, one can agree, the induction counter actually contains an inertial aluminum disk, but another point arises: in order for the economy to be measured at least, the frequency must be high enough, and this will strongly clog the household electric network with harmonics (frequencies different from the frequency of the network), which would endanger other devices not designed to operate at high frequencies (different from the frequency of 50 Hz), and the pulses arising in the network will be very powerful (otherwise there will be no e Of course, as a rule, at the entrance of household devices there are usually filters, but they are not exactly designed for filtering currents of 1.5-2 W. Therefore, such filters will certainly fly, and then the devices themselves. We save 10 bucks on electricity and we burn TV for 100, and it is likely that together with the neighbor (the network is common), we ask if we need such savings, although it's up to you to decide. The apartment wiring also has some capacity, and immediately the question arises - if the frequency is high enough, and this should be the case, then all these high-frequency pulses with the capacity of the wiring will not be smoothed out. As a result, it can be that the capacitor for a series of high-frequency key openings simply will not be charged and it will not have anything to give to the network.) It remains in the second quarter of the period, discharge the capacitor into the network without any impulses, through the same keys. Similarly, the second half-cycle through the other shoulder of the keys C and B. It is interesting, why is everything so complicated? So, for example: Have consumed 2 kW, the meter took into account 0.5 W, gave an ideal 2 kW, the meter took into account -2 kW. The result of the period - the induction counter is turned back at a speed of -1.5 kW, and the electronic costs up to 1.5 kW. Where did these figures come from - let's leave it to the author's conscience, but even with working schemes they will certainly be much smaller.
So already at the stage of theoretical analysis we found out that this will not work for electronic counters, it remains to find out how the circuit is operable for induction ones. Although there is a million ways to spin them back much easier and more efficiently.

Fig. 1 Diagram of signals.

Assignment of schema elements:
VD1-4, DA-1 in Fig. 2. Power supply of the microcircuit.
VD5,6, R5,6,7 in Fig. 2. pulse generator synchronous to the 50 Hz network.
VD 2, R 5 in Figure 3. Rectifier, module power supply.
VD3, C1 in Fig. 3 stabilizer.
VT1 in Figure 3 is the key element.
The pulse frequency f = 1.0 ... 3.0 kHz.
VHS 3-4 output of the pulse shaper.

General scheme: Fig. 2.

Details: VD1-4 - diode assembly of KC 402B; VD5, VD6-D226. Or analogues 1N4007
С1-20..40мкф х 400 in (it is possible to use both electrolyte and not electrolyte)
С2, С3-47мкф 12в; C4-22F.
DA1-78LO5 or KREN5A (5c) or LM7805.
VT1, VT2-KT315.
R1, R2, R3, R4-1.1com; R5-1com. All 0.5 watts
Tp-r 1-220v, III-7c, II-12c. low-power
The quartz is 4MHz.
Modules A, B, C, D are identical and are assembled according to the following scheme:

Fig. 3.
Details: VD1-D243, VD2-D226; VD3-KS156A.
С1-20мкф. 12v
DA1 - PC120 (optocoupler).
VT1- КТ809 (400в, 3А) on the radiator (for all together) 100х150х50мм
R1-10kW, 0.5Watt
R2-5.1 Ohm (multiwatt approximately 10 watts)
R3, R4, -30com; R5-20com, R6-1.1com. 0.5watt
The remaining resistances are 1W.

It's interesting how the transistor VT1 behaves when a voltage negative to the emitter is applied to its collector, even more interesting is how this will be affected by VT2? Will not it turn into a jumper? And still it is interesting why in the R1VD1 chain such a solid resistor? Is this chain able to protect something?

The D1 chip is a simple microcontroller that works on a program that is written to its memory (in accordance with the key activation schedule in Figure 1) Programming is performed via connector X1.
The firmware is configured for 2 kHz pulses and a duty cycle of 50/50.
These parameters can be changed before compilation.
For programming, copy to notepad and save with the extension .HEX
I did not bring the firmware and the source code of the program because the scheme is still inoperative, but if the people ask, I'll post them too.
In the absence of a programmer, or a controller, the control scheme can be assembled according to other principles, including logical elements. The power of the winding, at С1 = 20мкф is approximately 1 kW. It is interesting, by what formula the energy of the capacitor was calculated, but oh well, about this later. Increasing the capacity increases and power, but other transistors VT1 are needed. Do not forget about the fuses. At setting it is better to use С1 = 5мкф, not electrolyte. Yes, the author was modest, in general electrolytes are certainly cheaper and smaller, but they will not last long for a constant charge-discharge and there will be a small ACB.

It so happened that neither the positron nor the megaphase responded to my questions, and the search for like-minded people at the megaphase forum and in the positron complaint book led to my IP being blocked. So I decided to break the task into smaller ones and simulate the fragments of the circuit in the Micro-Cap. Look at the picture, I simplified the circuit (I dropped the zener diodes and added a second power supply, since the optocoupler is closed, it did not draw), and now even with the naked eye you can see that during the negative half-wave the transistor VT2 will come back. Why is it so? Yes, everything is very simple - when applying a negative potential to the collector of the transistor, the K-B transition plays the role of a diode, and moreover, with the cathode on the collector.

Why are transistors burning

( Note elremont .To confirm that this is all true, I will quote excerpts from the forums in which this issue was discussed. I do not write the addresses of the forums, I think this is not so fundamental.

Author: PRO (prokrs [dog] {17-04-2005 20:10}
This circuit does not work !!!
More precisely, it works only in terms of burning transistors!
Positron is a scam!

Really you can only save 100 watts!
These are my real experiments!
Author: victor (victor1964 [dog] {06-12-2004 08:47}
The scheme is not working. Who wants to burn transistors can experiment !!!
Author: sasa (nefeld74 [dog] {05-05-2005 14:56}
I ordered from POZITRONA (method 13 and extension cable) and they do not work.
Guys who can help me work the scheme.
Thank you all.

I was not contacted by the authors of the messages, but I have no reason to distrust them.)

But as it turned out, it's just flowers ... Let's look at the currents in the circuit. When the capacitor is charged in the first quarter of the period, the current flows through the following circuits: from pin 1 of D to pin 2 of key D, then through capacitor to pin 2 of key A and finally to pin 1 of key A. Is not it strange? Apparently according to the idea of ​​the positron (megaphase), the current must change its direction after the capacitor or the keys equally well conduct current in both directions.

Look at Figure 5, nothing like? And here you have not guessed, this is a circuit of a single-phase voltage inverter (a voltage inverter is called a DC-to-AC converter). Guess which contact is connected to the current source (capacitor). Again, you did not guess, the current source is connected to the AV terminals, and from the CD terminals we take a break ... continue?


Many people ask whether the principle of operation is correct - indeed, inductive counters have a large negative error with HF load, but otherwise the principle is incorrect. With electronic counters this trick does not work out (maybe I just did not work).

And again elremont :

And now I will quote excerpts from the forum, where this problem was discussed by electricians-professionals:

Method number 13 works, although I myself have not tried it. There are several disadvantages - fast transistors burn and the network is quite a serious hindrance !, so it does not show a telly (neighbors also). Neighbors will begin to find out what is happening
Hello colleagues! Now there will be an exposure! METHOD 13 Positron does not work and can not work in principle! Already 2 months, as we bought this method (11 bucks - it's a penny), as a result we got the following results: the diagram there is correct, the firmware of the microchip too, the oscilloscope shows that everything is fine. BUT!!! Any attempt to connect the finished device to the network is a fiasco. Immediately the powerful transistor burns out. Everything was tried: changing the modules in places, changing the face values, modifying the device, but the result is the same. In addition, there are specialists in this issue (not in the CIS), who explained why this will not work. In addition, if anyone succeeds in assembling this method, such radio interference will go to the network, that the use of the unit in the apartment becomes impossible. I have another scheme that will really work, but the cost of its parts reaches $ 500. Except as for sale, it is unprofitable to collect it. RESULT: Positron - freeloader, trades in unverified schemes. QUESTION: there is such a block the size of the charge for the mobile phone, when it is plugged into the outlet, it stops or stops the meter completely (single-phase), while a small inconspicuous bug must be installed in the counter. We have a real block, we need a diagram of the bug itself. Somebody knows? OFFER: whoever is interested, FREE send the entire positron scheme scheme 13. I wait in exchange for any interesting information on the theft. On this subject, we can communicate in person, write to me at . And for general acquaintance at the same time I'll try to open a new topic. Write!
I'm here on the idea of ​​13 positron collectors and so on. No, I did not buy the circuit, I developed my own, on another microprocessor, on other keys. I myself wrote the realizing principle, the scheme debugged the components, the circuit works, the waveforms of the signals on the oscilloscope checked, everything is OK - the capacitors are being charged, the keys when they need to open, ONLY ONE PROBLEM - the COUNTER DOES NOT BACK, EVEN NOT TURNS! The frequency tried to change 2-10 kHz, everything on re-checked, everything works, spent a lot of time developing the scheme, working out the algorithm of the "machine", the time for writing and debugging the program, the time for assembling the soldering and debugging of the circuit, ALL NOT WORKING WORDS ... ... Twists as well as twisted, EVEN NOT TIGHTEN, AS IT IS NO IT ALL .... It's all about physics of processes. Little hope is that I have some kind of cunning counter: ECHO co-197 (Kharkov) in which I very much doubt ((((((((I sit I look at this case - like the old woman at the broken trough ..... Show me happy owner of the working method number 13, I'll give money for it ... Maybe I too should sell 100% "working" scheme for $ 1000

so I in due time took this idea. too, was sitting like an "old woman at a broken trough," everything depends on how to treat this fact, or forget it as an annoying curiosity, or as a replenishment of a coin box of priceless experience-and replenish the ranks of the "broken" for each of which, as is known, two "unbroken" give

-A guest-
About the method number 13.
It's like another attempt to create a perpetual motion machine, in which something is created from nothing.
To test this method, a scheme has been compiled that realizes it, and it is revealed that this method does not work. The counter disk just stands still. And when you connect other consumers, it starts spinning, where it is supposed to be - FORWARD, as if nothing had happened.
The fact is that the energy from the network in the first half of the half-period turns into a charge of the condenser, and in the second it returns back to the grid (with the exception of some losses). And this does not depend on whether the pulses charge the capacitor or continuously for half the half-cycle.
I'll try to explain this with a simple example.
If we take a bucket of water from a well, and pour it back, what will change? Nothing.
And now, if we collect water in a bucket in batches (impulse mode of capacity charge) and also pour it back?
We just spend our energy on lifting water from the well and pouring it back.
In the case of the scheme, this is the purchase of parts, its assembly. And spending money on the purchase of the circuit itself, the sense of which there is no point.

Although, if you assemble and establish it, then you will undoubtedly gain experience in electrical engineering and electronics.
If anyone is interested, write to I will send for a separate moderate fee.
this is all right. pull the energy out of the network, then give it back in the same amount. that is, minus the loss of processes, heating, and so on. BUT !!!!!! the idea is that the measuring instrument is in error at a high frequency !!!!! I personally think that this air conditioner, which is charging, and smooths our high frequency pulses. It is not charged from 0 volts at each impulse, but from the previous charge point.
in general, the idea of ​​the error of the counter at a "high" frequency seems to me to be deliberately false - specially launched "to the masses" for taking away the right path - after all, the idea of ​​an "electronic" coacher could not be born out of nowhere (smoke without fire does not happen).
I think the point is the following - it is known that when passing a direct current through the current coil of the counter it "lies" -the point is that the change in the magnetic flux in the core of the current coil does not come from zero of the sine wave a little later (depending on the value of the DC current ).
our task is to "magnetize" the core of the current coil. as?
1.-connect up to it and after the battery-does not fit - you have to climb up to the counter.
2.-magnetize while there is no current in the network - this occurs regularly 100 times per second. at zero in the sinusoid we have a chain-phase in the socket-one of the side coil-the automaton-the UZO -... the secondary winding of the power transformer -... the UZO-auto-zero in the socket- in the sum the circuit without voltage with resistance of several ohms in this moment is discharged into the socket of the conder (300 V 10000 mKF) through 100 A core-keys
the current coil "flies" into saturation and turns into a permanent magnet - and with the current flowing through this coil, the magnetic field of the core SHOULD NOT recharge our partially discharged conder, and proceed to the negative half-wave of the sinusoid. this is just a theory, born from looking at the circuit on 100A-keys
a guest
The counter, indeed, has a negative error at an increased frequency.
If the meter is switched on in the STANDARD circuit, connect it to the LF generator and increase the frequency from 50Hz, then with increasing frequency the disk slows down and at 560 ... 600Hz stops (counter type CO-2, for other types the frequency may be different). The voltage was sinusoidal and rectangular, without a constant component. In both cases, the effect is the same.
The impulse charge (interruption of the charge current) does not in itself give anything. The average value of the current through the capacitor is the same as without the pulses. And it depends little on frequency. It's tested.
In general, if the capacitor is charged from a separate source and discharged into a network, the counter starts to rotate back. But where to get this separate source, and is it better to immediately load it from it, because he must develop the same power that we want to rewind. At the same time, we become a source of food for our neighbors.
The idea with magnetization is likely to work, too, but from a separate source: the battery, for example. To charge an 10000μF conder to 300V less than a quarter of a period, considerable power is required.
a guest
The working circuit, even if there is, then it works most likely with a separate source of current. The power of it should be not very large.
In order for the meter to rewind at a speed of 2 kW / hr, it is necessary to pass a current of 9A through the current winding, the voltage is only 2.7 V on it.
The power is 24W, and if you uncoil 1kW / h, only 6W. The difficulty is how to transfer it to the current winding through a network in which there is a voltage of 220V.

Here are the pies ... If, after what you have read above, you have an itch to spend 11 bucks, buy a better book on electrical engineering. The benefits will definitely be more.