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§ 15 Life and death of method number 13. (unwinding generator)


The ghost of freebie roams the internet! Method number 13, also known under the names "generator unwinding", "Generator reactive power (!)", "Heated", and the like. A distinctive feature of this method of stopping (unwinding) electricity meters is that it does not require changes in wiring schemes, grounding, and in general interference with the existing power supply circuit. There is always an emphasis on what acts on electronic meters. Usually this scheme is called - "Method number __. Electronic." It is even difficult to come up with a more legendary and unwinding counter method. He is like communism - it seems a little bit more, and here it is happiness. Detailed information (microcontroller circuit and firmware) costs $ 11 (although some irresponsible individuals sell it for $ 2), but I found it on the network for free. However, you should not run after your electronic and cash money and grab hold of a soldering iron.

Scheme, theory and embodiment.

Let's take a look at the content of the submitted description, the text of the original description is in italics, I will highlight my comments in bold.

Theory and principle of operation of the circuit: In the first quarter of the period of the mains voltage, energy is consumed from the network, that is, capacitor C1 is charged, but charged through transistor switches A and D which are controlled by high-frequency pulses, that is, charging energy is consumed by high-frequency pulses. It is known that the counters including. electronic because they contain an inductive current sensor with a magnetic core having a limited conductivity in frequency (let me disagree about electronic ones - low impedance resistance can be used as a shunt for current measurement, but the coil cannot have limited frequency conductivity. But but with very little inductive resistance, so the error introduced to it is very small.
For a more complete explanation, here is an excerpt from the standard factory instructions for an electronic meter:
Analog signals taken from a precision current transformer with no iron in its core and a resistive voltage divider are fed to the inputs of the microcontroller. The microcontroller converts analog signals to digital, multiplies them, and calculates the average power P (t) every second. Energy consumption is determined by integrating P (t). "
Electronic single - phase energy meters GEM Operating Instructions

For an electronic counter, the magnetic field created by the current coil is completely irrelevant. There is probably not a limited conductivity in frequency, but a sampling rate of an electronic meter. That is, if an electronic meter measures the current with a frequency of 100 times per second, and if the load is consumed at a frequency of 200 times per second, then theoretically every second pulse will be unaccounted for and energy will be taken into account only by half. And now look again at the factory instructions:

2. Technical specifications of the GEM electronic meter .

Accuracy class 1.0 or 2.0 (GOST 30207)
Rated voltage, Un 100V; 120V; 127V; 220V; 230V
Rated (maximum) current In 10 (60) A - Cl. 1.0; 10 (100) A - Cl.2.0
Nominal frequency 50 Hz or 60 Hz
Sensitivity 0,004In
Operating temperature range –20 ° C to +55 ° C
Power consumed by the voltage circuit <0.75W; <1BA
The power consumed by the current circuit <0.05 VA
Constant counter 4000 or 2000 imp / kWh
Max. number of tariff zones 1 or 2

The sampling frequency of the counter (clock frequency) at a frequency of 60 Hz should be at least 120 Hz (this is one of the theories of higher mathematics, I don’t remember what they call it, but I know for sure that the exact sampling frequency must be double) it is even higher and the load should be consumed with a frequency of 240 Hz, and it should be synchronized with the internal frequency of the meter, which is not very practical in practice.) as well as induction, because in addition to the magnetic, they also contain the mechanical part of the measuring system; they have a very large negative error during the passage of high frequency current. (To some extent, we can agree, a really induction counter contains an inertial aluminum disk. But another moment arises. In order to save at least you can measure, the frequency must be high enough. And this will greatly clog the household electrical network with harmonics (frequencies other than the frequency of the network), which will endanger other devices not designed to work with high frequencies (different from the frequency of 50 Hz). And the pulses arising in the network will be very powerful (otherwise The effect of under counting. Of course, as a rule, filters usually enter the input of household devices, but they are not exactly designed for filtering currents with a power of 1.5-2 kW. Therefore, such filters will probably fly, and after them the devices themselves. And what we we have? We save 10 bucks on electricity and we burn TV for 100, and quite possibly with the neighbor one (the network is common). The question is, do we need such savings? Although of course you decide. And running a little ahead. Flat wiring also has some kind of capacitance, and immediately the question arises - if the frequency is high enough, and this should be so, then all these high-frequency impulses with the capacitance wiring will not smooth out. As a result, it may be that the capacitor is simply not charged for a series of high-frequency key openings and has nothing to give to the network.) It remains for the second quarter of the period to discharge the capacitor to the network without any impulses through the same keys. Similarly, the second half period through the other shoulder of keys C and B. I wonder why everything is so difficult? So, for example: They consumed 2 kW, the meter took into account 0.5 W, gave ideally 2 kW, the meter took into account -2 kW. The result of the period - the induction counter is spinning back at a speed of -1.5 kW, and the electronic one costs up to 1.5 kW. Where these figures come from - we will leave it on the author’s conscience, but even with working diagrams they will definitely be much smaller.
So, already at the stage of theoretical analysis, we found out that all this will not work on electronic meters, it remains to find out how efficient the circuit is for induction. Although to turn them back there are a million ways much easier and more efficient.

rice 1 Chart of signals.

Purpose of the scheme elements:
VD1-4, DA-1 in Fig 2. power supply of the microcircuit.
VD5,6, R5,6,7 in Figure 2. A pulse shaper synchronous network of 50 Hz.
VD 2, R 5 in Figure 3. Rectifier, module power supply.
VD3, C1 in Fig 3 stabilizer.
VT1 in Figure 3 is the key element.
Pulse frequency f = 1.0 ... 3.0 kHz.
VHS 3-4 pulse shaper output.

General scheme: Pic. 2

Details: VD1-4 - diode assembly KC 402B; VD5, VD6- D226. Or analogues 1N4007
S1-20..40mkf x 400 in (can be used as an electrolyte and non-electrolyte)
C2, C3-47mkf 12v; C4-22p.
DA1-78LO5 or KREN5A (5v) or LM7805.
VT1, VT2-KT315.
R1, R2, R3, R4-1.1k; R5-1kom. All 0.5 watts
Tr-p 1-220v, III-7c, II-12c. thin
Quartz - 4MHz.
Modules A, B, C, D are identical and are assembled as follows:

Fig. 3
Details: VD1-D243, VD2 - D226; VD3-KS156A.
S1-20mkf. 12v
DA1 - PC120 (optocoupler).
VT1-KT809 (400v, 3A) on the radiator (for all together) 100x150x50mm
R1-10kom, 0.5vatt
R2-5.1 ohms (about 10 watts mnogowatnoe)
R3, R4, -30; R5-20com, R6-1.1kom. 0.5vatt
The remaining resistance is 1 watt.

I wonder how the VT1 transistor behaves when a negative voltage is applied to its collector relative to the emitter. Even more interesting is how VT2 reacts to this? Will it turn into a jumper? And I wonder why there is such a solid resistor in the R1VD1 chain? Could this chain be able to save something?

Chip D1 is a simple microcontroller that operates according to a program recorded in its memory (in accordance with the schedule for switching on the keys Fig. 1) Programming takes place via connector X1.
The firmware is tuned to 2kHz pulses and a 50 \ 50 duty cycle.
These parameters can be changed before compiling.
To program, copy to notepad and save with the extension .HEX
I did not give the firmware and the source code of the program because the scheme is still unworkable, but if people ask, I will post them too.
In the absence of a programmer or controller, the control circuit can be assembled according to other principles, including logical elements. The power of unwinding, at C1 = 20µF is equal to about 1 kW. I wonder what formula was used to calculate the energy of the capacitor, but oh well, about that later. Increasing the capacity increases and power, but we need other transistors VT1. Don't forget the fuses. When tuning, it is better to use C1 = 5µF, not electrolyte. Yes, the author was modest, in general, electrolytes are certainly cheaper and smaller, but they will not withstand a long constant charge-discharge and there will be a small bookkeeping.

It so happened that neither the positron nor the megaphase responded to my questions, and the search for like-minded people on the mega-phase forum and the positron complaint book led to my IP being blocked. Therefore, I decided to break the task into smaller ones and model the circuit fragments in Micro-Cap. Look at the picture, I have extremely simplified the circuit (I threw out the zener diodes and added a second power source, since the optocoupler is closed, I didn’t draw it either) and now even with the naked eye it is clear that during the negative half-wave, the VT2 transistor will come off. Why is it coming out? Yes, everything is very simple - when a negative potential is applied to the collector of the transistor, the KB transition plays the role of a diode, and moreover with a cathode on the collector.

Why do transistors burn

( Note to elremont. To confirm that this is all true, I’ll give excerpts from the forums in which this issue was discussed. I don’t write the addresses of the forums, I think this is not so important.

Posted by: PRO (prokrs [dog] {2005-04-17 20:10}
This scheme does not work !!!
More precisely, it works only in terms of burning transistors!
Positron - scam!

Really, you can only save 100 watts!
These are my real experiments!
Posted by: victor (victor1964 [dog] {06-12-2004 08:47}
The scheme is not working. Who wants to burn transistors can experiment !!!
Posted by: sasa (nefeld74 [dog] {05-05-2005 14:56}
I ordered from POZITRONA (way13 and extension cable) and they do not work.
Guys, who can help me advise the working scheme.
Thank you all.

I did not contact the authors of the messages, but I have no reason not to trust them.)

But as it turned out, these are only flowers ... Let's look at the currents flowing in the circuit. When charging a capacitor in the first quarter of the period, the current flows through the following circuits: from pin 1 of key D to pin 2 of key D, then through the capacitor to pin 2 of key A and finally to pin 1 of key A. Isn't it strange? Apparently, according to the idea of ​​a positron (mega phase), the current should change its direction after the capacitor or the keys conduct the current equally well in both directions.

Look at Figure 5, nothing like? But they did not guess, this is a single-phase voltage inverter circuit (a voltage inverter is called a converter of electric energy of direct current into alternating current). Guess which contact connects the current source (capacitor). Again, not guessed, the current source is connected to the terminals AB, and from the terminals CD we remove the current ... continue?


Many people ask whether the principle of operation is correct - indeed induction meters have a large negative error at RF load, but otherwise the principle is incorrect. With electronic meters such a trick does not work (maybe I just did not succeed).

And again elremont :

And now I will give excerpts from the forum, where this problem was discussed by professional electricians:

Method number 13 works, although I myself have not tried it. There are a few drawbacks - transistors quickly burn out and a rather strong interference goes into the network!, So the telly shows poorly (at the neighbors too). Neighbors will begin to figure out what is happening.
Hello colleagues! Now will be exposing! METHOD 13 Positron does not work and cannot work in principle! Already 2 months, as we bought this method (11 bucks is a penny), as a result we got the following results: the diagram is correct there, the firmware of the microcircuit also, the oscilloscope shows that everything is normal. BUT!!! Any attempt to connect the finished device to the network fails. Immediately burns a powerful transistor. Everything was tried: the modules were swapped, the details were changed, the device was modified, but the result is the same. In addition, there are experts in this matter (not in the CIS) who explained why this will not work. In addition, if anyone succeeds in assembling this method, such interference will go to the network, and using the unit in an apartment becomes impossible. I have another scheme that will actually work, but the cost of its parts reaches $ 500. Except for sale, collecting it is unprofitable. RESULT: A positron is a freeloader who trades untested circuits. QUESTION: there is such a block the size of a charge for a mobile phone, when plugged in, the meter slows down or stops completely (single-phase), and a small inconspicuous bug should be installed in the meter. We have a real block, we need a schematic of the bug itself. Somebody knows? PROPOSAL: whoever is interested, I’ll send the entire positron scheme of the method for FREE 13. I am waiting in exchange for any interesting information on the theft. On this topic we can communicate in person, write to me at . And for general acquaintance, at the same time I will try to open a new topic. Write!
I've been led to the idea number 13 of positron traps in , etc. No, I did not buy the scheme, I developed my own, on a different microprocessor, on other keys. He himself wrote the softphone implementing principle, the circuit debugged the components picked up, the circuit works, I checked the signal plots on the oscilloscope, everything is OK - the capacitors are charging, the keys are opened when necessary, ONLY ONE PROBLEM - COUNTER BACK DOES NOT REVOLVE, EVEN DOES NOT PRINCE! I tried to change the frequency 2 -10 KHz, everything was rechecked, everything works, I spent a lot of time on developing the circuit, developing the algorithm of the “automaton” operation, writing and debugging the program, assembly time, soldering and debugging the circuit, NO WORDS AT ALL ... ... Twists like a twist, EVEN DOESN'T IMPROVE, AS IT DOES NOT ALL AT ALL .... It's all about the physics of processes. There is a small hope that I have some kind of tricky counter: ECHO co-197 (Kharkov) which I doubt very much (((((((((I sit looking at this thing - like that old woman at the broken trough ..... Show me happy owner of the working method number 13, I will give money for it ... Maybe I can also sell a 100% "working" scheme for $ 1000

so I once fell for this idea. also sat like an "old woman at the broken trough" it all depends on how to treat this fact — either to forget as an annoying curiosity, or as a replenishment of a piggy bank of invaluable experience — and to replenish the ranks of the broken ones — for each of which, as we know, two non-beat ones give

-A guest-
About the method number 13.
It looks like another attempt to create a perpetual motion machine, in which something is created from nothing.
To test this method, a scheme was implemented that implements it, and it was revealed that this method does not work. Disk counter just stands still. And when other consumers are connected, it starts to rotate, where it should be - FORWARD, as if nothing had happened.
The fact is that the energy from the network in the first half of the half-period is transferred to the charge of the capacitor, and in the second half it returns to the network (with the exception of some losses). And it does not depend on whether to charge the capacitor with pulses or continuously for half a half period.
I will try to explain this with a simple example.
If we take a bucket of water from the well and pour it back, what will change? Nothing.
And now, if we take water in a bucket in portions (a pulsed mode of charging the tank) and also pour it back?
We will only spend our forces on raising water from the well and pouring it back.
In the case of the scheme - this is the purchase of parts, its assembly. And a waste of money to buy the scheme itself, from which there is no any.

Although, if it is assembled and adjusted, then you will undoubtedly gain experience in electrical engineering and electronics.
If anyone is interested, write I will send for a separate reasonable fee.
it's all right Pull the energy out of the network, then give it back in the same quantity. that is, minus losses on the processes, heating, and so on. BUT !!!!!! the idea is that the error of the measuring device at high frequency !!!!! I personally think that this air conditioner, which charges, and smoothes our high-frequency pulses. It is not charged from 0 volts with each pulse, but from the previous charge point.
In general, the idea of ​​a counter error at a “high” frequency seems to me to be deliberately false - specially put on the masses to be led off the right path - the idea of ​​an “electronic” winder could not be born from nowhere (smoke without fire does not happen).
I think the essence is the following - it is known that when DC is passed through the current coil of the meter, it “lies” - the point is that the CHANGE of the magnetic flux in the core of the current coil does not come from the sinusoid zero but a little later (depending on the DC value ).
our task is to "magnetize" the core of the current coil. as?
1.-connect before it and after the battery-does not fit - you need to fit before the counter.
2.-magnetize while there is no current in the network — this happens regularly — 100 times per second. at zero in a sinusoid, we have a circuit - a phase in the socket - an ophthalmic coil - an automatic device - UZO ... the secondary winding of a power transformer - ... a UZO - automatic zero in a socket - in the sum, a voltage-free circuit with a resistance of several Ohm-- in This moment we discharge into the socket Conder (300 V 10000 mKf) through 100 A key and core
the current coil "flies away" into saturation and turns into a permanent magnet - and when further current flows through this coil the magnetic field of the core CHANGE will not further recharge our partially discharged condender and proceed to the negative half-wave of the sinusoid. this is only a theory born while looking at a circuit on 100A keys
a guest
The counter, indeed, has a negative error at an increased frequency.
If the counter is turned on according to the STANDARD scheme, connect it to the low-frequency generator and increase the frequency from 50 Hz, the disk slows down the speed with increasing frequency and stops at 560 ... 600 Hz (CO-2 counter type, for other types the frequency may be different). The voltage was sinusoidal and rectangular, with no constant component. In both cases, the effect is the same.
Pulsed charge (interruption of charge current) by itself gives nothing. The average current through the capacitor is the same as without pulses. And it does not depend much on frequency. This is verified.
In general, if the capacitor is charged from a separate source, and discharged into the network, the counter starts rotating backwards. But where to get this separate source, and whether it is better to feed the load from it right away, because he must develop the same power that we want to wind off. At the same time, we become a source of food for our neighbors.
The idea of ​​magnetization is likely to work too, but from a separate source: a battery, for example. To charge a Conder 10000µF to 300V in less than a quarter of a period, considerable power is required.
a guest
Even if there is a working circuit, it most likely works with a separate current source. Its power should not be great.
In order for the meter to wind off at a speed of 2 kW / hour, it is necessary to pass a current of 9A through the current winding, while the voltage on it is only 2.7V.
The power in this case is 24W, and if you wind off 1 kW / hour, then only 6 watts. The difficulty is how to transfer it to the current winding through the network, which has a voltage of 220V.

These are the pies ... If after what you read above, you have an itch to spend 11 bucks, buy a better book on electrical engineering. There will definitely be more benefits.